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Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:41 pm
by sbtvlist
I use the XMLTV grabber to download a copy of the weeks data. I then parse the data into a local Access database using a Visual Basic program. A local web app displays my listings. All this is for personal use. Do I need to get this approved? If so, how?

Steve

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:51 pm
by rmeden
It already is (effectively). On the signup page there's an entry for "personal research (XMLTV)" That's what it's there for... there's really no point in adding every private non-distributed application to the list.

Of course the Membership Agreement items about no redistribution or use in a commercial product still stand.

Robert

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:08 am
by tip
I'm confused. Robert, are you saying that you think Microsoft Access is not a commercial product?

Or are you saying Microsoft Access is OK because Microsoft Access can do other things besides storing and providing access to scheduling data?

-Kevin

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:24 am
by rmeden
Yes, Access is commercial, but it's a general purpose tool like a compiler. In this case I consider your "application" is what runs in Access, and that's what needs to be approved (and is).

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:54 pm
by Dachannien
The service agreement needs to make that clear, then. All it really says is that when you access or use the data, you must use software on the approved software list to do so. Nowhere is "access" or "use" defined, and both of those terms could be taken to have a different (more or less restrictive) meaning than what you guys think it means. Also, nowhere is "application" mentioned.

The restriction on making a copy or archive of the data is still an issue. Inserting the records into a database would seem to qualify as making a (non-ephemeral) copy, yet such behavior is virtually required by any software that would make use of the data.

These may seem like minor details, but they are extremely important, especially if we're downloading directly from TMS's servers and not from SD's. If TMS decides they want to interpret the terms of our agreement with SD differently than how you do, then all sorts of chaos could result.

Also, the expectation in the initial (giant bold) paragraph, that people who download the data are implicitly agreeing to the terms of the agreement, is flawed. The only way that you are going to make the agreement fly in the first place is if you require people to agree to the agreement when they create their account (since you have to use the account in order to download the data). That means no shortcuts like telling people to "click here to read the agreement" on the registration page - the agreement has to be right there, and it has to be impossible to register without having at least seen the agreement and clicked on an "I agree" box at the bottom. This sort of thing has already been covered in a few court cases, and the general consensus has been that if you don't essentially force the user to see the agreement before buying/registering/downloading/whatever, then the agreement's validity is greatly diminished, if not nullified.

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:27 am
by rshendershot
Holmgren wrote:Freeguide isn't even up to version 1.x yet and the My Telly homepage hasn't been updated since 2005.
I recently began contributing code to freeguide-tv (a SourceForge project) and would point out that I used it prior to MythTV a couple of years ago. It was then, and is now, a usable application. Don't let the 0.10.4 version sway since the philosophy is to wait for 1.0 to be a really good, really complete, 1.x release. We may never get there ;)

We're working on a 0.10.5 release that accommodates the change in XMLTV and TMS Webservice directory listings but also fixes a few things. It's java 1.4x or better so works on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Schedules Direct are bound to provide data in a limited fashion. For those who find the Approved Apps lacking, slow, incompatible or whatever your feedback is very important. Our channel is freeguide-tv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net. There is also a user's list.

I expect, and look forward, to there being a shakeout in this domain. Zap2It Labs would not be being closed if not for its data being shared indiscriminately. We, all, have a responsibility to be better stewards of the fruits of the labor that it takes to collate all the various feeds, update and massage the data, and inject corrections.

Please, help the OSS efforts. There is so much to do. Everyone here, by definition, *could* contribute. Why not?

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:34 am
by KBevo
rmeden wrote:It already is (effectively). On the signup page there's an entry for "personal research (XMLTV)" That's what it's there for... there's really no point in adding every private non-distributed application to the list.
Robert, my bad on this, I actually sent you an inquiry before reading this post. In any case thanks much for the quick reply. I did sign up for the SD announce list so I am guessing that more information will be sent out when the signup page is ready to start using? Great job in getting this all up and running, and your right, I "can't wait" :D .

Thanks
Gary

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:53 pm
by japaget
rshendershot wrote: I recently began contributing code to freeguide-tv (a SourceForge project) and would point out that I used it prior to MythTV a couple of years ago. It was then, and is now, a usable application. Don't let the 0.10.4 version sway since the philosophy is to wait for 1.0 to be a really good, really complete, 1.x release. We may never get there ;)

We're working on a 0.10.5 release that accommodates the change in XMLTV and TMS Webservice directory listings but also fixes a few things. It's java 1.4x or better so works on Windows, Mac and Linux.

Schedules Direct are bound to provide data in a limited fashion. For those who find the Approved Apps lacking, slow, incompatible or whatever your feedback is very important. Our channel is freeguide-tv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net. There is also a user's list.

[snip]

Please, help the OSS efforts. There is so much to do. Everyone here, by definition, *could* contribute. Why not?
I've tried FreeGuide 0.1.4 out and it works reasonably well. I've had the following problem:

The program would hang up after loading about 13-14 thousand programs. There apparently is a capacity limit in FreeGuide. Upgrading FreeGuide to use XMLTV 0.5.47 didn't fix the problem. By deleting 4 seldom-used channels and downloading 13 days instead of 14 I was able to get FreeGuide to download properly.

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:19 am
by sbtvlist
I currently get my data using XMLTV 0.5.45 with the tv_grab_na_dd grabber. When changing over will there be a new version that will handle the address change from Zap2It. It appears the address is embedded in the executable. Is this correct?

Re: "Approved" applications?

Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:34 am
by Holmgren
rshendershot, thanks for your comments. I am trying out Freeguide and it is indeed a good working program.

A thought on the "approved apps". I noticed one person had written some code to make the data show up in MS Access. And that's approved. I don't have that ability and would like to pay someone to write me a program to display the data. And that's not approved. If that person wanted to sell me his code so the data would show up in MS Access, that would not be approved. If he gave me the code, that's approved. I think I'm beginning to get the idea. :)