Mixed Emotions!

xris
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Re: Mixed Emotions!

Post by xris » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:23 pm

slim wrote:As far as the commercial ventures like TMS they do get the listings free form the networks and stations.
Yes and no. As I understand this, it's worked out between TMS and the stations themselves. Probably takes the form of some stations paying TMS to carry their data, TMS paying some stations for the data, some stations giving it to TMS for free, and possibly some sort of trade, in which a station gives data to TMS in exchange for other services from TMS. But that's just a guess, since I doubt that TMS would ever share the terms of their contracts with stations, let alone the actual numbers involved.

I have heard that some of this data is delivered daily on paper via couriers, so it's not just a simple digital feed like some of us originally hoped it would be.

hockey
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Re: Mixed Emotions!

Post by hockey » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:02 pm

This entire thread can be summed up thusly:

MY LIFE IS ADVERSELY AFFECTED BY THE COST OF TV LISTINGS AND I MUST COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNETS!!!

Seriously it's 20 bucks for a yearly TV guide. As other's have said either pay or don't, it's that simple.

Geez.

wensail
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:17 pm

Re: Mixed Emotions!

Post by wensail » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:35 pm

Best thread summary I've seen, hockey!! LMAO reading your cogent, rational post. Thanks for the laugh.
Isn't this topic flogged enough yet??? Geez, indeed.

rshendershot
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please be real

Post by rshendershot » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:36 am

hockey wrote:MY LIFE IS ADVERSELY AFFECTED BY THE COST OF TV LISTINGS AND I MUST COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNETS!!!
I can't speak for others but for me Zap2It Labs seemed a bit like a skunkworks effort to bring the info in an open way (eg. XML) to the "little guy". Being one of those, that was important.

Schedules Direct enjoys a tenuous and highly-constrained relationship with its aggregator, TMS. You may think this entire thread is a waste of time. Exploring how to bring about a less precarious environment for all Open Source users is also important.

So, be real. It's easy to use the "on the internets" meme. Have you actually thought about what happens *when* TMS decides that their basic inflow is adversely affected by their agreements with third parties (two of which I know of at this time - that means we all get judged by association)? I would bet that SD contract can be canceled at any time TMS chooses. I hope I'm wrong about that. Since SD has extended our subscriptions to a year I take it they have at least that in a contract but do not expect the term is much longer. Again, I hope I'm wrong about that. And despite any contractual terms, could SD afford to fight if TMS just cancels? That's the nature of our involvement.

I hoped others would see that it was a core business need of SD to assure that the info flowed freely to them. I've been told that it's more a reactive thing than a proactive effort that SD considers doing in that regard. (see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=376&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10#p2282)

So, like, thanks for your comment wensail. slash hockey. It definitely added insight ^H^H^H^H^H^H NULL to the discussion. Oh yeah; I also appreciate your ignoring ^H^H^H ance of the point that FREE is not cost but Openness.
oxbadfood wrote:reduce the price until a free solution is realized.
Is it not obvious that there is a general undercurrent that the current arrangement is wrong somehow? SD did a great thing with very little time. But what about going forward?

rshendershot
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:19 am

Open schedules access

Post by rshendershot » Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:19 am

xris wrote:I have heard that some of this data is delivered daily on paper via couriers, so it's not just a simple digital feed like some of us originally hoped it would be.
The idea that TMS has to, possibly, pay to some stations or other entities to make the whole thing work is a key point. They (TMS) deserve to own their product in this environment. But how much easier for all if each distribution point were required to provide schedule information without cost to all comers. Technically that's easy.

As we all know, hitting requirements like providing rollup info often clarifies system deficiencies. So besides being in their best interest with regards to the information, those still faxing schedule info would gain from the process automation "forced" upon them.

Whatever top-line hit TMS might take, there is still the bottom-line cost reduction in the need for manual processes.

I still see no downside. sigh... ;)

xris
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Re: Mixed Emotions!

Post by xris » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:35 pm

Most TV stations will give you a lineup if you ask for it. The one I asked sent me the file -- it's an xls file that is typed by hand each week. It contains the program name (in two separate cells if the name is too long to fit on one line) and start/end information. No episode names, no descriptions. They don't have access to any more-detailed information. The stuff that goes into the EIT stream is added by a third party that the parent station pays. That company probably buys its info from TMS.

It's a big messy circle. We can talk for hours about how easy it would be to fix things, but keep in mind that some of the companies running many of the TV stations and affiliates have been around for over a hundred years and move slowly. They have no interest in fixing things that aren't broken in their eyes.

rshendershot
Posts: 51
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Re: Mixed Emotions!

Post by rshendershot » Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:08 am

xris wrote:Most TV stations ...They don't have access to any more-detailed information.
I don't want to quote a bunch of stuff that's just above... but I consider your entire reply just completely fascinating. I was completely unaware of the complexity of the upstream sourcing. I would have thought that the station had the description info available and used it as part of its scheduling decision-making.

At one time I thought Fox might bring a new model; one of independence where a station could pick up any of the Big-Three feeds that it deemed viable for its market. But it's now part of the Big-Four and we still have stations as affiliates with tight ties to only one of them. Well I know this is very OT but it's the kind of ideas the discussion raises with me so I'll ask your pardons for it.

Anyway, thanks very much!
-Rick

slim
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Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:07 pm

Re: please be real

Post by slim » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:25 am

rshendershot wrote:
hockey wrote:MY LIFE IS ADVERSELY AFFECTED BY THE COST OF TV LISTINGS AND I MUST COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNETS!!!
I can't speak for others but for me Zap2It Labs seemed a bit like a skunkworks effort to bring the info in an open way (eg. XML) to the "little guy". Being one of those, that was important.

Schedules Direct enjoys a tenuous and highly-constrained relationship with its aggregator, TMS. You may think this entire thread is a waste of time. Exploring how to bring about a less precarious environment for all Open Source users is also important.

So, be real. It's easy to use the "on the internets" meme. Have you actually thought about what happens *when* TMS decides that their basic inflow is adversely affected by their agreements with third parties (two of which I know of at this time - that means we all get judged by association)? I would bet that SD contract can be canceled at any time TMS chooses. I hope I'm wrong about that. Since SD has extended our subscriptions to a year I take it they have at least that in a contract but do not expect the term is much longer. Again, I hope I'm wrong about that. And despite any contractual terms, could SD afford to fight if TMS just cancels? That's the nature of our involvement.

I hoped others would see that it was a core business need of SD to assure that the info flowed freely to them. I've been told that it's more a reactive thing than a proactive effort that SD considers doing in that regard. (see viewtopic.php?f=7&t=376&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10#p2282)

So, like, thanks for your comment wensail. slash hockey. It definitely added insight ^H^H^H^H^H^H NULL to the discussion. Oh yeah; I also appreciate your ignoring ^H^H^H ance of the point that FREE is not cost but Openness.
oxbadfood wrote:reduce the price until a free solution is realized.
Is it not obvious that there is a general undercurrent that the current arrangement is wrong somehow? SD did a great thing with very little time. But what about going forward?
I'm still finding your post extremely difficult to understand. A lot of what you say above is almost impossible to interpret what you are saying including terms that I think only you would understand.

Do you really speak like this.

By the way I have been to college and have not had this problem before.

It's almost like you are not speaking English.

shrink
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 5:31 am

Re: Mixed Emotions!

Post by shrink » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:06 pm

I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.
alan
Alan B.
Ocean New Jersey

mjezell
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Re: Mixed Emotions!

Post by mjezell » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:30 am

How do people expect SD to continue to grow, upgrade, improve equipment and all the other things that for-profit companies deal with without cash? Which one of you runs your household on the same budget as you did ten years ago. Don't we all plan ahead for emergencies, retirement and such (ha ha). I hope SD is looking to the future to survive. I counting on it.

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