Out of order episode numbers?

[richardxday]

I'm using the tv_grab_sd_json XMLTV system to pull listings from Schedules Direct in the UK.

The episode-num entries like:
<episode-num system="dd_progid">EP016364530163</episode-num>

Appear to be made up on two parts: a programme identifier ('EP01636453') and an episode identifier ('0163'). This is especially useful when the programme entry doesn't include any other episode information.

So I've been using the episode identifier as an ordering scheme so that the programmes can be recorded out of order but sorted by episode number.

However, I've had a number of cases where the episode numbers seem to be out-of-order, for example:
Mon 06-Mar-2017 13:15 - 13:45 : Channel 5 : Home and Away (EP012675812275)
Tue 07-Mar-2017 13:15 - 13:45 : Channel 5 : Home and Away (EP012675812276)
Wed 08-Mar-2017 13:15 - 13:45 : Channel 5 : Home and Away (EP012675812279)
Thu 09-Mar-2017 13:15 - 13:45 : Channel 5 : Home and Away (EP012675812280)
Fri 10-Mar-2017 13:15 - 13:45 : Channel 5 : Home and Away (EP012675812277)
Mon 13-Mar-2017 13:15 - 13:45 : Channel 5 : Home and Away (EP012675812278)
Tue 14-Mar-2017 13:15 - 13:45 : Channel 5 : Home and Away (EP012675812283)

So here the programme identifier is consistent ('EP01267581') but the episode numbers go:
2275
2276
2279 *
2280 *
2277
2278
2283

Note the programme is on the same channel at the same time on consecutive days with the chronological order being the correct programme order. But the assigned episode-num entries do not reflect this.

So, is this an issue? Should they be in order?

Or can I not rely on the uniqueness or order of the assigned episode-num values?

Thanks,
Richard.

[rkulagow]

No, you can't rely on the last-4 of the programID indicating sequence. Our upstream makes no guarantees.

However, the data does include an original air date.

I have asked Gracenote if they can add the episode number to the data; we'll see what they say.

[richardxday]

Thanks for the quick response.

The issue is that often there is no other episode information so no way to determine order (I'm assuming the dd_progid episode-num guarantees uniqueness). Back in the old days (when the Radio Times provided the UK's EPG information), the xmltv_ns style numbering accompanied most episodic programmes but that seems to have fallen by the way side for non-season based programmes.

The previously-shown entry is not really useful as it only gives a date and since some programmes have multiple [different] episodes on the same day, it cannot be used for repeat detection.

What I can't understand is why the episode numbering isn't monotonic - doesn't this make it *more* difficult to generate the data?!

Thanks,
Richard.

[gtb]

What I can't understand is why the episode numbering isn't monotonic - doesn't this make it *more* difficult to generate the data?!

While I do not know if it applies in this case, sometimes (at least on this side of the pond), an episode get assigned a production number which may have nothing to do with the showing order (and what is worse for such things, sometimes a show gets rescheduled at the last minute to a much later (after other episodes air) showing date due to events (or an episode that has a bombing may be pushed back two months after a major bombing event), or some other forced rescheduling. And there are examples of *extreme" confusion (i.e. inconsistency) as to what the episode number ends up being between the guide providers, broadcasters, producers, imdb, viewers, crowdsourced data, etc.).

[rmeden]

basically what gtb said... I think Gracenote assigns an episode-id before it is scheduled. (They get info from the producers). The broadcast order can (and sometimes does) change. Gracenote just guarantees uniqueness. BTW, what's unique to you may not be unique to them... sometimes a show is "remastered"... that triggers a new episode-id. ( adding tweets, or editing for length)

The Season #/ EP # commonly used by viewers do not appear to be used by producers of the shows... that's why it's usually fan-created based on air-date.

[gtb]

The Season #/ EP # commonly used by viewers do not appear to be used by producers of the shows...

And don't forget the networks that reorder showings from what the producer expects for show continuity reasons (*cough* Firefly *cough*).

[emveepee]

I have asked Gracenote if they can add the episode number to the data; we'll see what they say.

Please don't change the programID since that will mean all the unique identifiers for past shows may get broken. If a sequential reference is needed consider a new field.

Martin

[rkulagow]

Gracenote doesn't have S/E information for this particular series because they're on Season 0, episode 6543 or something; it's the Australian version of Coronation Street in that sense.

So I've asked them to add that to the series metadata if possible.

There is no plan on changing programIDs.